PA3CLQ's Leuke Linken Nr. 472


88 ft feed with 450 Ohm ladder-line follow-up PLL Nr.471

I made a 20M EDZ that's just about 90 FT (there is a formula in the ant books to get this length) that's 2 5/8 wave segments , center fed.

I feed it with 450 Ohm line to a MFJ balanced line tuner.

That length is pretty interesting because it is pretty close to a halfwave on 60M, a double Zepp (1 wavelength centerfed) on 30m, close to a 3/4 wave doublet on 40M and I can get pretty good reports using it from 5 to 18.1 MHz.

It will tune up on on 80M but it is really poor at transmitting and hearing, compared to my halfwave 80M dipole.

CW is Real Radio 73, John...K8JD
    hi Dave,
Everybody has his own experiences in his or hers specific situation, you just have to experiment.
At my first job a long time ago, my boss was a Ham as well, and tried to Elmer me.

In the case of wire antennas, he told me to string up as much wire as possible, feed it with homebrew ladder line, and invest in a good matching device.
Over the years, after a lot of reading, experimenting and calculations further, I can only conclude that he was right.
In my case I use a dipole 2 x 25.5 ft, about 40 ft homebrew feed line, spaced about 4 inches, 30 ft above ground. (that's all I can do in the limited space I have nowadays).
Used an open homebrew link coupled symmetrical matcher with alligator clips for years, which I recently replaced by a homebrew double L symmetrical matcher to get rid of the alligator clips.
With this device I can match this small antenna from 160m-10m from inside my shack, impedance varying from 54~2200 Ohms.
It even seems to radiate as well, according to RBN and reports by other Hams.
At 160m and 80m the efficiency of this small antenna is of course very low, but better than nothing. 
The only thing this type of matcher doesn't seem to handle well, are resonant antenna's, but you can cope with this by varying the length of the feed line a bit. Once done, sit back, and just turn the knobs.
But as said before, everybody has its own thoughts and desires about antenna's and stuff, as every situation is different.

You have to experiment what works best for you.

    Sorry Dave, I think I misunderstood.

Because of the ladder line, I assumed a dipole.
Are you using a Zeppelin type of antenna?

Only one radiator, and the other part of the feedline running free at the top?
In that case I am trying to understand the symmetrical feed in combination with the L tuner and radials.
Can you explain what your thoughts are?
73, Jan PA3GSV

    I have never used the 88 foot doublet but have used its little brother, 44 foot feed with 300ohm twin lead, in a townhouse attic with very good results.
Have been following this discussion and I am surprised that L. B. Cebik W4RNL has not been mentioned.
Google My top five backyard multi-band wire HF antennas .

The 88 and 44 footer are discussed along with various configurations of both.
Bill KC4IM
    I made one about 127' long up 50' fed with 450 ohm about 60' to a switch and coax about 50' to rig.

Been working great for years. I use a Palstar tuner.

Figures close not absolute memory getting a bit long in the tooth.
    Thx for ur advice on the antenna systems u have used.

That's pretty well is what I've been doing since 1959.

I have never minded cutting up or adding to antenna lengths but I really hate to cut up or add to ladder-line.

I have a kW L-tuner that does a great job.

This time, I will put up a ZS6BKL modified antenna system to get better results on 80/40 meters.

I use the term antenna system because we are talking about antenna and feedline is an "antenna system".

Ur experience is worth more to me than some software solution that was never tried.
Dave Little AF5U
    Yes, cutting up ladder line is not something to look forward to.
Over the years storms blew down the antenna several times, and I had to built new ones.
Now I know the near perfect antenna-feeder combination.
But just a question in general, how do you guys find the sweet spot for every band on your matcher?
Usually I check the DC current drain at a certain power setting for every band with a dummy load, to start with.
Next I connect the antenna and check for maximum noise, and then fine tune the controls to get a near 1:1 VSWR.
DC current drain should then be more or less equal to the current drain with the dummy load.
The idea behind this, that one could assume that the antenna system impedance should be Ohmic in some extent.
U guess we all take things a step further to get really really convinced that what we're doing is right.
So I brought a portable VNA with a Smith chart home from work, and to my surprise some of the settings I found out this way were everything but Ohmic.
It will work I guess, but probably not at its full potential.
Found out all settings again using the VNA, and for the restricted space I have, I am happy with the results.
But a VNA is not always at hand, I am curious to know how you people do this?
Check for warm coils maybe, but at QRP levels they wont heat up that much.
73 Jan  PA3GSV

    I use an end fed wire with a home brew tuner which has a rf amp meter.

I tune for max current in the antenna.

K5jyd Larry Brandon

    As mentioned in another post, an rf current meter is very useful for endfed wires.

They can be made very cheaply with only a few parts.

A clamp-on meter can be made by using a common split ferrite core as a sensing coil- the kind that are used on power cords for RFI suppression. 
No thermocouple is needed.

A clamp on RF meter could also be used with ladder line by clamping around one conductor.
If you have a T-match antenna tuner try to keep the output capacitance at maximum for best efficiency.

Here is a good article on how to operate a T-match:

73, Drew AF2Z
    Hi Larry,

Yes, this is the way to go I guess, got two of those ammeters lying around.......
They're max 3.5 amps, at voltage maximum the needle hardly moves, but I can always check at higher power, and then go back to QRP.
Thanks for reminding me of the good stuff kept safe in boxes for you never know when you're going to need it.

    Most RF current meters found on ebay, etc. will not work as-is.

Even though the meter face says "RF Amps" they probably require an external thermocouple.

They can't be directly inserted into a feedline.
Here's a good article on constructing a clamp-on antenna current meter:

73, Drew AF2Z

    The ones I have are made by "Weston" dated 1942, it says "thermocouple" in the left bottom corner.
Used them with the old link coupled matcher, to determine the settings.
To be honest I forgot about them, until Larry mentioned it.
If memory serves me right, there was about 2.5 ~3 RF amps at 100 Watt at low impedance / current max.
With all the fancy stuff lying around, one sometimes forgets the basics.
The clamp-on meters are a nice modern alternative.
73 Jan PA3GSV
    In the older days, hams had current meters inline.

I used HP Network Analysers in tuning duplexes and TX Combiners.

But, some of the best antennas were designed by Bogner and they were a amaze of transmission lines of various ohmic values and phasing lines to achieve more than just matching.

The bottom line is - does it get out or is it more like a dummy load?
Getting the length the right length is more like a compromise for multiband antenna systems.

Remember the childs toy where the heads pop up and you hit them with a plastic hammer?

He will grow up to be a HF antenna designed using his VNA as the hammer.
Dave Little AF5U

    Yes, this child's toy with the hammer and VNA is a good comparison.
At work we get sample cellular antenna's every now and then for testing, which we sometimes cut open.
Sometimes 5 bands in one enclosure, electrical tilt etc.

They're artworks of engineering, can keep looking at them.
Then it's comforting to get home and worry only about a single wire.

    One place I worked would open up cylendrical fiberglas radomes on the big VHF and UHF commercial antennas, usually coaxial brass dipoles that had broken couplings that we re-soldered or brazed to get them back in operation and would then sell at discount to our smaller business customers .

Now some of the newer UHF or 8-900 MHz antennas just have thin wire elements inside the fiberglas (some are PVC plastic) tubes.


CW is Real Radio 73, John...K8JD

    We've seen riveted contacts on antennas from local Chinese suppliers.

Not very PIM friendly.

Talking about cheap.. 
73 Jan PA3GSV


Correct way to ask for repetes in a QSO

Just watched a YouTube video and have often wondered this as a new OP what was the correct way to ask for someone to repeat information... 
I've not heard this so far but that does not mean anything as I have only 30 QSO's under my belt...

In the video they state to have info repeated in the last round you say " agn AA (prosingn for all after) and a word to indicate the start point "
or agn AB (prosing for all before) and a word to indicate the start point ... or agn BN (prosign for All Between) two indicated words ... 
I'm sure there are several different ways, just want to start using the correct expected format.

At this point in my early CW adventure I find that when I encounter characters or procedures/prosigns I don't expect I loose several characters before I get back in stride...
73, KQ4MM- Brian

    Ah. What is the correct way.. fuel the missiles, arm the warheads.
Unleash the dogs of war!!
Well Brian, Ill tell you what 99.9% of people do, and they do NOT use AA, AB, or BN.

Those prosigns may be used for for passing net traffic, but are almost unheard of for normal on the air chatter.
If I didnt copy your SKCC number, Ill send BK nbr nbr ? ? BK. If I didnt get you name, Ill send BK name name ? ? BK
There are some variations on the above, but thats about it.
BTW, if you dont understand what Im asking, please respond with a simple BK ? ? BK.

Please do NOT respond with RST, name, state, number.
That is REALLY annoying..
73 Mark K3MSB
    Sorry I can't watch the video here at work.

From what you describe, that is the correct way you would ask for repeat info, or a fill, during message traffic exchanges.

Mostly what I hear in CW qso's, is RST RST AGN ?? for report, ST ST AGN AGN ? for state, of NR NR AGN AGN ? ? for your SKCC Number again.
Jason, N3YUG

    This information is true for traffic handling.
In casual QSOs, I usually just send NAME AGN PSE or something similar, or, even more colloquially, MISSED UR NAME AGN PSE.
73 - Bill KA8VIT

    If you know specifically what you want repeated (NAME, etc.) just send it as a question:
Of course, you can be more conversational if you want:
If you didn't copy anything just send "PLS AGN?".
73, Drew AF2Z
    Yes, traffic net ops are a breed of their own and casual chat QSOs do not follow that book too much.

I have asked a new CW op to repeat his name or QTH and get the whole thing, RST Name QTH AGE etc, over again and that sure slows things down until the band goes flat and the entire QSO is lost.

If you miss the name of the other op just say "PSE RPT NAME ? BK" That's all !

SAME if you miss the QTH, Juat say "PSE RPT QTH ? BK"

If some one asks you to repeat your QTH, DON'T repeat EVERYTHING !

Just your QTH !!!The way the bands have been declining and spotty, you need to keep the messages brief and to the point ! If you live in Mississippi, DON'T spell it out , it's recognized as MS to everyone !

The shorter message gets thru if there is QSB and a long drawn out transmission may get lost in a band fade out !Have Fun !
CW is Real Radio 73, John...K8JD
    Yeah, and if condx are really poor and you need several items repeated just do one at a time.

You may need several exchanges to get the name. 
Then ask for NR? Then RST?.
If you're really dedicated you can end up going back and forth eight or ten times to complete the QSO.

Or see who bails out first-- you or the other guy, haha...
73, Drew AF2Z

    How about just Qth imi, name imi, nr imi, rst imi. . . . .IMI.

Also if u get a 599 rst, there's no need to send everything twice unless you think it is a new op (new nr or Qrs opr) and then I repeat everything just to give him a chance to get it all.
73 All, Allan W4EAB
ditty dum dum diddy ...CW is Real Radio 73, John...K8JD

    It would not be unreasonable for a new op give you a 599 report.......

and then ask for a repeat of everything, nor should new ops be afraid to ask for a repeat at any time.

Folks just getting started with code can get flustered and miss stuff.

Most (but, maybe not all, it seems) SKCC members will be happy to repeat any or all of the info. 
Steve AI9IN

    Not to mention if someone starts up a leaf blower, chainsaw, etc next door during the QSO.

RST 599 might be a valid signal report but still miss some of the copy.
73, Drew AF2Z
    When I started back in the 60s, the S was read from the S-meter on the rig.

I eventually learned that the rig reading was only a swag.

Also what do you report if he is S7 with S7 noise?

Finally, so many new guys or contesters who are used to an F1 F2 F3 exchange from the keyer/computer dont really seem to know that there is something other than 599 (or better yet, 5NN as it is faster).
Honestly, without looking it up, would you know what 596 meant?

I wouldnt and it is my question.

With the current band conditions Ive seen signals go from 599 to 339 in the middle of a transmission.

Finally, code speed gets to be relative very quickly.

I can do a standard exchange at 30 to 35 wpm when QRN/QRM/QSB are being nice, the band is open and everything is good.

Ive had to ask for repeats (QSZ), slower code (QRS) or any number of accommodations based on conditions when things are other than nice.
I have sent RST 399 when the noise level is right at the signal strength.

I know that if I give you 599, I shouldnt need a repeat; but it does happen.

Sometimes it even happens to me; especially if you send something Im not expecting or someone calls me or the dog barks in my ear or ???.

Life happens. In a rag chew, everything is slower and more relaxed and Im not expecting a specified order in the exchange so I am more flexible ( I hope).
It is all about having fun and helping the other guy along. If I want perfect communications, Id use SKYPE/FACETIME.
Just my not so humble opinion of course.
Les, Leslie Hock WB5JWI

    As everyone has indicated, there is no "correct" way as everyone has their own idea of what's correct or not. 
I suggest you think less about what's correct or what you think is expected and just speak as you would in a conversation.
Sri....missed ur last, pse ? (imi...repeat) 
I just had a conversation last night and the op was practicing head copy and got lost and came back to me and said just that, so I slowed down and repeated
my last comment and all was good.

He thanked me for QRS so he could get all the copy.

The lesson is that he didn't give me some lame excuse or just ignore what I said and faked it...he just told me what was going on and we continued to have a very nice QSO as a result.
That's one HUGE favor you can do yourself and the op on the other end, and that's ask the other op to slow down if your having problems with copy.

Just say you're a new op and need to go slower.

No biggie. 
Have fun and welcome to CW.

I love it and I'm sure you will too.
73, Steve-W1SFR

    Good advice.

Old salts help the greenhorns.

We're not an exclusive club, but a fellowship dedicated to a fine art form!

First digit, readability.

Second is signal strength.

Third is tone quality.

How embarrassed I was in 1990 after getting my General giving a SSB operator a "589" report!

We laughed, I learned.

Greg Lathrop
     Honestly, without looking it up, would you know what 596 meant?
Would I know exactly the difference between a 597, 596, or 595? No.

But that doesn't mean it doesn't convey information.
I've found that for a person not versed in anything but a new Yaewoodcom radio, it's either a T9 or something really bad; most times I get sent a T5.
Also, those not versed in tube radios usually don't know the difference between a T8 or a T9C.
So, if I get something other that a T9 I consider the source and how often I've received the non T9 during the event.
73 Mark K3MSB
    What does the first 5 mean?

If you get a report of 199 would you understand  that the recipient is having trouble copying you, your sending is bad or  there is a transmitter/receiver problem. 
73 Brian KF6C
    Yes. I've worked many strong stations hindered by interference.

I really dislike eco smart LED bulbs.

The root of all QRN...
Greg Lathrop

    R stands for Readability:
1. Unreadable
2. Barely readable, occasional words distinguishable
3. Readable with considerable difficulty
4. Readable with practically no difficulty
5. Perfectly readable
Unless the sending operator gives you a reason for an R1 through R4, you don't know.
BTW I received a 509 report this last WES!

Since the station was sending it to others as well, I assume the S was his S Meter reading.
73 Mark K3MSB


Here is some info on Navy Code

73, Derek


A quick look at the Navy code shows the combination of -..- is the same for each of the letters B and X, and the numeral 0 (zero).

This would preclude the sending of five letter code groups.

Doesn't look practical anyways. Surely a misprint of the chart?
Maurie AK Ofc 


Nice article by N6WM on the spectrum scope in NCCC newsletter

Thanks Chris!
See pp 12-14:

73, Tom - N1MM

    For N1MMLogger see:


    I use ATHENA in parallel to have a great grapical information how to perform based on a former contest.

PC5M is sadly RIP and there is no more development - therefore it seems to be as it is - but N1MM+ is supported.
Greetings Peter DF1LX

    I checked out the information on ATHENA, but when trying to download it from PC5Ms web site/link, it disappears.

 I did a little investigating and it looks like PC5M is a SK.

Does anyone have a copy of the software to share?

It is referred to as free, just like N1MM.

Thanks in advance,

73 de Jim KE8G

    Editor.... See atachment pse


Family names are interesting

As an example "van Oosterhout" named after a city in the provincie Noord Brabant.

"van Ooijen" is a municipality in the municipality of Horst on the Meuse, in the Dutch province of Limburg.

"Pietersen" the sun of Pieter.

"Paardenkoper" someone selling horses.


    What is the meaning of Oelp my family name ?

So In 2014, I was curious about my ancestors and where they came from.

I did not go beyond Louisa Oelp born in early 1800

She gave her family name to her son Johan Oelp.

What? Louisa is thus an unmarried woman with a child?

The name of my true ancestor (From father to son) still unknown or not?


The populationregister of Zutphen states that on 22 October 1861 the following persons were registered in the municipality of Zutphen, namely:
Gerrit van Ouwerkerk born August 18,1823* (38 years) in Amersfoort

Lucia Ulb born January 11,1823 (38 years) in Ramsbach Germany **

Johan Ulb born March 1,1862 (4 months) in Zutphen (Johan must be added later)


The birthregister of Zutphen mentions the birth of a son who brought Louisa Oelp on March 1,1862  with the name Johan in the presence of

Gerrit van Ouwerkerk, aged 38 years

That can not be a coincidence.


Phonetically, the German name Ulb is the same as the Dutch name Oelp.

I think a Zutphense official asked her name and wrote Oelp in the registry


Bin ich aus Deutschem Blut?


What's the problem?

Gerrit van Ouwerkerk was in that time married with Elizabeth Diepeveen, but has not been officially divorced for 20 years.

According to the law a begotten child must receive the mother's family name.


After the death of Gerrits wife Elizabeth Diepeveen, Gerrit Ouwerkerk (48) is married to his beloved Lucia Ulb on 15 mei 1872

The government in the Netherlands asked for a birth certificate of Lucia Ulb, but it was not present.

The pastor in Ramsbach as a civilian official produced after 45 years on March 1, 1872, a birth certificate that was confirmed by the government in Wiesbaden on March 3, 1872 that Lucia Ulb is born on 3 mei, 1827**


I am confused what is my real family name is it Jan Pieter Oelp is it Jan Pieter Ulb (phonetically the same) or bij family name transfer from father to son  (do not freak out) Jan Pieter Van Ouwerkerk, with German / Dutch blood?

Ask what is an oelp, what is a ulb it will not be clearer.

What is an van ouwerkerk?

I need to look up so much information!

Thanks to Jeroen for his research in the municipal archives of Zutphen.

(With an international DNA bank it would be much easier to find / track your family, as Jan PA3CKX long time ago predicted that this would happen in the futures)


The latest (Sep 28) Space Weather broadcast from Tamitha Skov.

Cheers,Darrel, aa7fv.


73, from the town at the rivers "De Bergsche Maas" and "De Dongen" Geertruidenberg (800+ years city rights) at: 51.702211N 4.853854E


Editor Jan Pieter Oelp PA3CLQ




My simple website about Gigantic DF-Antennas

Part 1 "DF-Antenna Wullenweber Array"

Part 2 "DF-Antenna USSR Variants"

Part 3 "DF-Antenna USA Variant"

Next Part 4 "USSR OTHRA DUGA 1,2 & 3" at: